Starting problems....

chris.m wrote: All well and good checking the timing, but pointless without knowing where the pickup should be in relation to TDC don’t you think?!?!! :dry:
For the record a good starting point for the pickup should be 28degrees before TDC!
I can show you how to work this out Dave it’s pretty simple!!

In actual fact - according to the on line DLE-111 manual, the static timing should be 44deg BTDC.

However, ALL the above is totally irrelevant because the static timing is set in stone at the factory. The prop driver is keyed to the crankshaft by a woodruff key and Cannot be altered beyond the the slots in the sensor. plus / minus a 2deg ish

Sorry if the intent of my post was not clear but what I meant was - Dave has a knackered engine that did not kick back so it can be assumed the static timing was correct and it would be prudent to verify if the static timing on the new engine were different. - Simples !

Thanks all, I ordered a timing kit yesterday so will report back with what I find.

In actual fact - according to the on line DLE-111 manual, the static timing should be 44deg BTDC.

Are you reading that right? 44 degrees from TDC (drop the B, it can be confused with bottom)

If that is what is quoted then maybe it's wrong. The piston would still be way down the cylinder, but just closing the inlet port and therefore any combustion would push it back down again - hence kick back. Firing point should be near to top of stroke and by the time the fuel mix has fully expanded the piston would be just over top dead centre.

You say with the choke on it doesn't. This is probably because the richened fuel air mix takes a little longer to fully explode.

So, rounding it up - kick back or pre-ignition = very lean mixture or ignition too far advanced. Whilst revving it any advanced ignition would be less harmful but would generate a lot more heat.

In the good old days cars and bikes had an ignition retarder lever to start from cold along with a choke or primer. Get it not quite right and you'd either get thrown off your bike or the starting handle would take your arm off - wouldn't it Frank? :lol: So a little slap on the back of the hand gets you off quite lightly.... :evil:

PhilF51 wrote:

In actual fact - according to the on line DLE-111 manual, the static timing should be 44deg BTDC.

If that what is quoted then maybe it's wrong. The piston would still be way down the cylinder, but just past the inlet port and therefore any combustion would push it back down again - hence kick back. Firing point should be near to top of stroke and by the time the fuel mix has fully expanded the piston would be just over top dead centre.

You say with the choke on it doesn't. This is probably because the richened fuel air mix take a little longer to fully explode. In the good old days cars and bikes had an ignition retarder lever to start from cold along with a choke or primer.

An electronic ignition only requires a pulse to tell it where the piston is. If the DLE manual is correct, the figure is 44deg. But thats not when the spark occurs. The pulse rate enables the unit to measure engine speed and the combination is used to determine when the spark is triggered.

Well guys as a good detective we should have enough clues to solve this problem, if your hand starting a engine upto 20 deg after TDC arms lost or broken, scaled down a bit fingers, when running anything up to 40 deg advance BTBC (BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTRE ) thats why you need a PPI if no making on crank or fly wheel. The speed of the burn depends and the fuel octane value ( NO EXPLOSION THIS IS PINKING ) to far advancded or to weak a mixture, To far retarded or rich mixture gives you after burn, high exhaust temp, burnt out valves. Weak mixture high cylinder head temp rich mixture slow burning. As you can see all things effect each other the days have gone when you had me sat on top of the engine adjusting things, but without the correct information this is difficult to get right so you need the gear to tell you these things, head temp, exch temp etc, good hunting guys.